Image by Mette Norrie
A man and woman in the 1960s trade reel-to-reel audio “letters” over the course of years.
Special thanks to Alissa Shipp and the staff of Snap Judgment.
Final song: Hobbies Galore by R. Stevie Moore, from Teenage Spectacular.Playlist
Julie London – How Can I Make Him Love Me – The Wonderful World of Julie London
Raymond Scott – Carribea – Three Willow Park (Electronic Music from Inner Space 1961-1971)
Loscil – Halcyon – Plume
Julie London – In the Still of the Night – The Wonderful World of Julie London
Pausal – Song from a Cloth Pocket – Pausal EP
Oval – Do While – 94diskont.
Bobby Ingano – Dreamy Lagoon – Steel Reflections
Celer – Inside the Head of Gods 10 – Inside the Head of Gods
Doris Day – A Very Precious Love – Secret Love
Celer – Inside the Head of Gods 10 – Inside the Head of Gods
Brian Eno & Harold Budd – The Plateaux Of Mirror – Ambient 2: The Plateaux Of Mirror
Banabila – Little Picture on the Wall – Precious Images (Datafiles 1999-2008)
Chihei Hatakeyama – Bonfire on the Field – Minima Moralia
Julie London – Guilty Heart – The Wonderful World of Julie London
Colleen – Sea of Tranquility – Les Ondes Silencieuses
Quincy Jones – Don’t Fly If It’s Foggy – The Deadly Affair (Soundtrack)
Chihei Hatakeyama – Bonfire on the Field – Minima Moralia
OUTRO TRACK: R. Stevie Moore – Hobbies Galore – Meet The R. Stevie Moore!
T: Wild animals, really make the worst of the pets.
J: I should think so.
T: You must remember that we’re taking an animal from, uh, into strange surroundings, strange foods, strange habits. Uh, they are used to the dangerous law of survival. And they do not forget that just because you bring them into your home. So, actually, they make the poorest of pets. They’re never to be trusted. And we must not forget this. Wild animals are warm-blooded animals…
* * *
T: 2, 3– [tape static noises] Well, that tested out alright… I have to talk rather low in here, I’m at the office in the hospital, of course. And, uh, wait just a minute– I wonder if they’re– uh, they’re calling for me. Just a minute.
There, we got that lady and her kitty taken care of. They had to be wormed, and et cetera, et cetera. Um, it’s the afternoon. Saturday afternoon. I mowed the, the lawn. It was needing mowing bad. And had me a nice, tall bourbon. And Lucille went out to the grocery store and ran downtown someplace. I don’t know where she went. Sitting here drinking a can of pet– the milk company’s “Sego”– liquid diet food. Been getting too heavy. I’m almost 200 pounds. I think this will make a good way to chat back and forth, by the time I get all this on tape, I’m sure not going to have anything left to write letters about. I see that right away. I’d rather hear your voice, anyway, and hear the things you got to tell me.
J: I imagine I’m probably talking too close to the mic. I have a bad habit of doing that, I know. There isn’t anything about my life that [laughs] is of interest, really. The last couple days, I’ve been taking quite a bit of time off to help mother shop for her glasses. And like I told you, yesterday I had my aunt and she helped to get the glasses fitted and so forth, and, mine still haven’t come back yet, darling. The frames are being made. They’re– they– some have a special hinge on ’em. And, and, um, but they do have to come from New York. So that’s why I haven’t gotten them yet. So I’m still half-blind doing this bookkeeping.
I’m getting ready to go and meet dad and my brother over at the health club. I haven’t had to go to the chiropractor once since I started on this health club deal, with all the exercise I’m doing and everything. It’s just amazing, I guess, what this whirlpool and steam baths and everything can do in the way of therapy! Uh, I don’t want this to get clear to the end, because I want to run it back so that my voice will be the first one that you hear. And then you can re-listen to the other side of your own, if you want to.
T: Gosh, I hope you’ve been feeling better, and hospital duties and so forth. I hope you and the doctor are getting along in good shape. Professionally, that is.
J: Oh, we get along. You know, I mean. He does not like for me to be late. He doesn’t have to even say so. I can see it. Oof. Rough. [Laughs] Now, I couldn’t get along with any man like I get along with you, naturally. After all, I don’t love anybody but you. See?
T: Oh, brother. Have I told you I loved you here on this tape? Once or twice. I’ve forgotten now. Three times [laughs].
J: I sure do love to hear you, and you know something, I found out, if I use the earphones with my recorder, and listen to you, why, oh, it, it brings just like you’re laying there beside me, talking right in my ear.
T: We’re apart, it’s true. But we have some wonderful plans to get together. That’s true too.
J: And if you want me there on Sunday, stashed away someplace, and then have me also there on Monday, you say the word and you know that I’ll be there, dear heart.
T: Well, darling, I see the tape’s about to, to get down again. Gosh, it’s good to call you ‘darling,’ you know. Mm-hm [sound of a kiss]. And, uh, I’ll get this tape in, in the mail tonight. And you listen to it when the lights are turned way down low. Bye-bye.
* * *[Sound of announcer on TV]
J: Ms. America pageant going on. You’re probably on your way to me right now, dearest one. I can feel the wonderful little bracelet on my ankle. Rubbing on the sheets here, and, and I take it while I’m watching television, and I’ll– just unconsciously, and then I’ll notice myself, that I have ahold of the bracelet, rubbing the initials on it, and have my fingers wrapped around it, just like I would if I had a wedding ring on.
I’ve been lying here– I dozed off a little bit ago, and I’m just about ready to finish up with the Miss America pageant, so. Seeing the beautiful girls and everything. You’re supposed to look the other way. They’re coming back on there. Let’s get the thrill of hearing Ms. America announced.
TV Announcer: …Miss Congeniality, now the crown of office is being placed on her head. The lovely ermine cape, I wish you great joy in your reign. You will receive many lipstick smears on your cheek. Ladies and gentlemen, meet the new Miss America, 1965! [Applause]
J: That was the end of the pageant, darling. I don’t know how late it’s getting to be but, I certainly am anxious for you to get here.
T: Oh, I read a good article in Playboy Magazine last night about lovemaking in the office. And some of the reasons for it. And some parts of it, they’re real to our experience, I think.
J: You do have, darling, an aura, as they say. Isn’t it? All around, and I think if we are in a crowd of a million people, and you came up behind me, I’d know it.
T: [Recorder shaking] I’m gonna let you guess who that aura is. I’ll bet you know, too. [Recorder shaking] Gonna let you guess who those were, too. I’m gonna stop and button up my britches.
J: Oh, my God, I just, my body just aches.
T: Oh, I think about this many times when we were at the hospital, and you used to come in and pull the zipper down on my pants.
J: Oh, you thrill me so.
T: Mm, Jeannie. I don’t know if it’s a normal thing to happen or not. And, uh–
J: The tape’s just about gone, sweetheart, I must say again– I love you. I love you with all my heart. Mail this back right away darling. Just as it is, so I can keep it… [tape slows]
T: [Singing] Meet me in St. Louis, Louis, meet me at the fair. Doo, doo, doo– [laughs] I’ll register in the chase hotel under the, the name of Dr. and Mrs. MJ Green. And you call up to the room. I’ll be there, don’t worry about that. I’ve got to– I’ve got to stop right now. It looks like, I don’t know for sure whether it’s her or not. No, it wasn’t. It wasn’t her. A student here has got a car that looks almost just exactly like our car and I get the pudding scared out of me sometimes. And, oh, darling, I look forward to being with you. Loving you in St. Louis.
J: Here I am, my beloved darling. Waiting with open arms, and loving heart, and she is waiting for him. That’s that little hot pussy of yours. And I mean to tell you, she is waiting and anxious and willing and able. [Laughs] And I’ve got a, uh, martini waiting on the table for you. [Knocking on door] Just a moment. Yes? She was checking to see if I needed towels or anything. And I’m opening the door right now, and I’m putting a ‘Do not disturb’ sign on it. And I intend to leave it hanging on the door all the time you’re here. You know something? We got kind of a squeaky bed. I may have to turn on the television to make a little noise around here. Because, I’ll tell you, it’s gonna be some teeter-tottering. Bye-bye for now till you get here, my dearly beloved.[Sounds of lovemaking]
J: My darling is cleaning himself up and tinkering in the boy’s room.
T: Why do you talk to yourself, but don’t answer back?
J: [Laughs] Tom T. I love you.
T: Mm-hm. Jeannie J., I love you.
J: These are our most private things all locked up away. They’re just for us.
T: Means nothing to anybody else. Boy, it’d sure shake ’em up if anyone ever got in ’em.
J: I believe I’d have to kill ’em. I really would.
T: [Singing] You, Jeannie, I love you, I do. Yes, I do, Jeannie, I do. Oh, my darling, Jeannie, I love you, I do. Yes I do. That’s, I don’t know what song that is. [Laughs]
J: [Laughs] That’s a special one, is what it sounded like.
T: [Talking over] Probably sounds awful corny when it comes out.
J: Sounded like you had a couple under your belt. But you haven’t had a thing. Not even coffee yet. We haven’t even had lunch. You hungry?
T: Mm-hm. You know it. You made me hungry a minute ago.
J: She took care of you, and so how bout– how bout you feeding yourself right now?
T: When you love somebody, you don’t love them because they have big breasts and beautiful eyelashes.
J: But it sure helps some.
T: It’s encouraging, let’s say that. But a man loves a woman– a man loves a woman for what she does for him. How she makes him feel.
J: What she does to him?
T: She makes him feel like he’s the one important person on earth. That’s– a man loves that more than anything else in the world. Baby, you know how to do that.
J: You’re so wonderful, Tom, how could I help but love you?
T: I try to be, Jeannie. It gives me so much happiness you make you happy.
J: You know what a jealous person I am, too.
T: Oh yes. I’m getting exposed to that.
J: [Laughs] But–
T: You’re not fanatically jealous. A man appreciates that too, he don’t like for a woman to take him for granted.
J: But you know that I have faith and trust in you, and I don’t worry about you being out by yourself because I know that you’re not going to be–
T: I’m just not a casanova, you may think I’m a casanova, the way I treat you. But, I’m telling you, that’s the reserved treatment that you get.
J: That’s wonderful. Oh, dear, the things you say and the way you make me feel, too, you know that. I tell you. I feel so beloved with I’m with you. Even when I’m not with you because I know you love me.[Tape static]
J: Ten minutes of ten. A.m. Friday, December the 10th. And this is our two and a half year anniversary, darling. Still wearing the chain that you put around my ankle. And, I want to wear it all my life. You know that. And I hope and pray on it all the time that it will come to pass that what it stands for will be true in our lives. For everyone to know, that we’re man and wife. Men just don’t do the things for women that you do for me without loving them. And also without wanting them to be their wife. I– I hope to God I’m not fooling myself on that, darling. I know, I know you’re not fooling.
T: Oh, darling, things are no different, there’s sure no change whatsoever. And Lucille’s attitude– remind either one. We just talk so little, and go over things so little. She has to choose her words, and I have to choose mine. And they, you know how I am about choosing words. I don’t choose very many, but if she’s ever been suspicious of anything between you and I, why, she’s, uh, been about as crafty in not letting it be known as we have keeping it undercover. But darling, we’ll just have to jog on the best, best we can, is all I can tell you. I feel keenly about the things I said about you going out with other fellas. And I don’t think that I should– I should hold you to that anymore. I don’t want you staying at home, not having some fun out of life, for sure. If you have to sneak the chain off your ankle to, to go out, and enjoy yourself, why, why sneak it off. Don’t– don’t stay home on my account. Because it– this is going to drag out. I’m– I can assure you that. [Tape slows]
J: …Don’t tell me. I’m so upset, I could just cry. Damnable damn thing, every time you want to do something, somebody or something stands in your way. This microphone sounds like an old hollow, I don’t know what. I have so many things on my mind that I just– this just doesn’t sound right, I mean it just– there we go. [Clears throat] Well, darling, I’ll try to slow down and get myself contained here, but I want to make it while I can, and get it off in the mail, this morning, darling. Because I have to get it off in the mail to my beloved.
Now, maybe if I can calm down a little bit, I can start out right, to– to my darling beloved, Tom. Forgive me if this tape jumped from one subject to another. [Laughs] Because I couldn’t help it, darling, I just have so many things on my mind. And, I don’t want to bore you, but you know how I feel about things, beloved. You know I want a life for us. And I want to be everything to you. Because you’re everything to me already. You are my world. [Singing] My very precious love. And all you are to me. [Hums] I’m going to find that record, yet, darling. So you can really hear it and enjoy it by someone who can sing. [Laughs]
Oh, golly. Darling, I think about you– I think about you with these sleepless nights, and you’re tossing and turning, and your need of me, and, having to put the paper down and sit there and listen to her. Just talking and nagging and carrying on about things I– I cry sometimes just out of sheer pity for you. Not– you know the kind that I’m speaking of, darling, sympathetic pity for the plight that– that you haven’t be able to get around yet. But, you will manage darling, it’s not like stepping out into the dark alone, because, actually, you’ll step into a whole wonderful world of brightness and sunshine, and I can give you all that. You know it. My Tom. [Sound of a kiss]
* * *
T: If you don’t have your earphones on, why, go get ’em. ‘Cause you is going to need ’em. …I should tell you that I’m sitting here naked. I mean flat-footed naked. And I’m on my second beer. That’s sure good beer. I wish you was here to enjoy it with me. I really do.[Singing] How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? And if I ever lost you, how much would I cry? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? And if you’re ever near me, how much would I cry? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky?
God, Jeannie, I hope you’re able to straighten out of this terrible thing that I’ve drug you into. I– I feel, I feel terribly about this, I really do. And yet there’s nothing I can do about it. I can’t. Jeannie, keep yourself together for me. Don’t, don’t rattle apart. There’s things that’ll come and go. Don’t rattle apart, darling. Say, I’m gonna go tinkle, would you mind me shutting this off just a minute while I go tinkle? Hm? Okeydoke.
* * *
T: Hey darling–
J: I love you.
T: –Happy Birthday to you, and many, many more to come.
J: Thank you, my darling.
T: And may we always be together on your birthday. I forgot how much this one– 41 or 43 or 45? [Both laugh]
J: You dog. Hound dog.
J: Thirty– that’s right. [Laughs] I’ll always stay 39 for you.
J: You can spend every birthday with me every year. I’ll always stay 39. [Laughs]
T: Okeydoke. That’s a– that’s a bargain.
J: Oh, my love, my darling. It gives me the most wonderful present in the world to be with you. You know that?
T: Oh, Jeannie, I– just to be with you, I– I’d do anything. Almost anything.
J: And you’ve proved that so many times to me.
T: I go up to a certain point and I don’t jump over. And I don’t know what keeps me from jumping over sometimes. But time and time again, I’ve been right up to the very edge.
J: You know that whenever you do, I’ll be right there for you, don’t you? Oh, I love you so dearly. So very dearly. You’re the most wonderful birthday I’ve had for a long, long time. You’re my beloved husband, Tom. You know that, don’t you?
T: Yes, mama. [Laughs]
J: That bracelet is fine and dainty, but it sure is strong, you know that? It just ties my heart, and wraps around my heart and ties it right to yours, and keeps it that way. And I hope we– I don’t– I shouldn’t say that. I know, although you’ve never quite told me, how much you appreciated the fact that I didn’t take it off when you asked me, the one time. I knew you didn’t want me to.
T: I didn’t.
J: I could have busted things wide open for us, Tom, but I love you too much to do that. I couldn’t.
T: I don’t want to break your heart, I don’t. Let’s talk about pleasant things.
J: I want to tell you one thing. For every little teardrop that I do shed, there’s so much bursting happiness in my heart that replaces it time after time after time.
T: So you just keep that in the back of your mind. He’s never said that he didn’t love you.
J: I know that. Spend every birthday with me, beloved.
T: No problem. I will, and that’s a promise.
J: I know, my darling.
* * *
T: Lucille gets up every morning, just as regular as clockwork, and gets my breakfast. I never have to tell her to get up. She gets up every darn morning now and gets my breakfast. That’s something she’s never done in all of our married life. And all these things I’ve been bitching about, now she’s doing them. And she’s doing them religiously, and she is doing her very utmost to keep this family together.
J: If she had wanted to do these things, all along she would have been doing them, Tom. Now I feel that she’s only going them because you’ve expressed the desire that she do so, or else.
T: Darling, don’t jump on me. I– I can’t take it from two women. And by God, I’m not going to, that’s for damn sure. You know, I just can’t– I can’t take any more of this damn– damn yakking from women. I’m not going to do it. That’s for sure. So, so don’t jump on me, darling.
J: I– I worry so. About our future. I worry about you, because you’re so quiet about so many things, darling. Things that are important. I must talk to you again tonight.
T: Now, darling, the phone, it’s got– we got to stop that. 100 bucks worth of phone bill. I can’t t– I can’t– I’ll get some money squeezed out here, and send you the phone bills. But we can talk on the telephone anymore in the middle of the day. That’s for dang sure. That’ll break us up. We gotta be, uh, halfway sensible about this thing. As bad as we want to talk.
J: And this concern that you had for her, and the check on the biopsy and everything. I– I can understand that, my darling. I wouldn’t wish anything like that on– on anybody. That would have really been a– another blow to things as far as we’re concerned, I realize that. Because it would have probably put her in bad health for a long time, and then you would have just stuck by out of the right thing to do. I know you. I know you, man.
T: I am awful confused. I read, uh, Ann Landers ever more and just as religiously and that’s about the only part of the paper I read. Her comments on triangular situations. Maybe not as bad as ours, at all, but nevertheless I keep, uh, seeking, uh, seeking an– an answer, a solution, and I– I can’t find it.
J: Had a paper clipping here, I’ll give you later on– or ask your secretary to print– on Johnson, and they’re getting a divorce, and after all darling, it doesn’t make a difference what walk of life you are or how high you get, there’s nothing that says that you’re not any good because you have a divorce. After all, people– it’s a different kind of a world now.
T: So many things been going on, Sunday afternoon Lucille came down and started talking separation. And, uh, there comes through a bunch of kids, I’ll shut off for– oh, they’re not going to stay very long. Oh yeah, go on, we get them through coming here all the time. Girl Scouts, Cub Scouts, what have you. In any event, darling, so that comes up in our conversation more regularly than it used to. And I went on down to the car. Here come the kids again… I went down to the car and me a big drink of straight, 100% Fitzgerald, and I drove clear over town, and I was aimlessly driving around. Had another good drink of, uh, of whiskey, and went on over to Trail’s End motel, and, well, I don’t know how those kids are going to. Well, they’re going on to another door, maybe they won’t come by here. I drank almost a fifth. Barely, hardly a half hour’s time. Sometime soon after that, I got violently sick and, uh, after that I don’t remember anything, I do remember vomiting over the edge of the bed. Golly, I made a mess in there. And I can’t take very many more of these go-arounds. That’s for sure.
J: You have so many, many things to fill your days, and, you know, mine overflows with the preparations that you make. Sometimes I feel as though I’m not contributing anything. Anywhere to anybody. With the exception of my deep and passionate and wonderful love that I have for you. Try to express to you, things I try to do to make you know it. That’s about really all I– I accomplished in the way of relations with other humans, Tom. Outside of my folks, I mean. You know how dearly I love them. I just– I just worship you, Tom. I think you know that. I love you so much.
* * *
T: They had a sale on paraffin. Great big blocks of paraffin. I made some pretty good candles, but, uh, I had never made this type of candle before. And, uh, I might just made something valentine for my darling now and then. Provided you can get the old gentleman to stay up long enough, and that’s where the problem comes in. I’ve got a great big vacuum cleaner with a long, uh hose. It’s two and a half inches in diameter. Help with the vacuum cleaner get him sucked up to a pretty good size. Then, uh, slipped a rubber band around the base of him, and I’ve had him stay good and hard for a long time. Maybe I oughta try that on other things, I don’t know. And, I had the plaster of paris cut in half inch strips, and molded it to him, and took a pair of scissors and very carefully cut the rubberband, and, uh, and then he started to, uh, shrink down of course. And, uh, that left me a mold, good and long. Makes me jealous of him, kinda. So, uh, the trouble of it is, if it gets too hot, it will melt down on you, for sure, in the summertime. So, like I say, you can store it in a cool place, and use it in a hot place. So, you can let me hear how you try that out sometime. Well, I got that all out of the road now, so we can talk about other things.
J: Well, I was watching television, the movie, and John Payne and Ronald Reagan. You can hear my little puppy dog starting to bark in the background. I don’t know whether you hear or not. And, uh, the longer I said there, the more bored I got, I guess you could say, and I decided I would have me a little vodka drink. So I did. And I had another one. And by the time I had the second one, then I got to thinking about other things beside the movie. And I decided that this might be a good time to let my darling know just how I feel about his valentine, too.
And I have just now peeled off my robe, and I’m lying back against the pillows, and caressing my tummy like you like to do, and fondling my breast. Mm. Don’t you love to kiss ’em, Daddy? And I just took my black lace panties off. I dressed especially for this, to make this tape for you, you know that don’t you? I’m trying to unfasten my black bra, that has just the two snaps on it, with one hand. I think maybe I’ll make it. I’m not sure. And get those little baby kittens of yours out in the open just a minute, Daddy, and I’ll finish unfastening this for you. Now it’s all off, and I’ll have a little swig out of my gimlet. Enjoy it with me, darling, will you? [Ice rattling] Taste good, baby. How I would love to have your glass next to mine to clink and, to make a wish on. Oh, God, Daddy, I’m missing you so much. Going wild for the need of you. You know that. How I’m situated makes the microphone a little bit short. And get the pillows arranged just right under me. Like you always do, Daddy, and, mm, look at this big, luscious friend of yours. Mm, that feels just like real live skin, Daddy. You know it? Not like a wax job at all, baby. [Sighs] Darling, don’t be with her anymore, please don’t be. Oh God, it’s so hard, it’s so hard to stay away from you so long at a time. I love you so much. [Crying] I’m so tired. [Sobs]
Oh, God. I’m sorry, darling. I wanted to not be in there. Oh, God. Oh, Tom, how I love you. How I miss you. I really wanted to make a good– a good tape for you. Oh, Tom. Oh, please, dear God. Do something about this.
* * *
T: This is the hardest tape, that I’ll ever make in my life, Jeannie. I’m gonna break somebody’s heart. I know that, Jeannie, I just know it. But let me tell you my, my story. Uh, she knows everything that you ever put on tape. She had keys made, and she’s been coming in here when I’ve been gone for any reason at all. She knows I was instrumental in helping you buy the car. She talks about helping out on the ramp, on the payments on your house. So she knows everything we’ve done. She’s been getting into these tapes all along. So that’s how she come– she knew all about St. Louis, and the reason you couldn’t get the key is this– she went to the desk and said she was Mrs. Greene. So she was trying to get the two of us to– to meet up there. Both of us could have been arrested for registering in a hotel under a false name and not being man and wife. On moral charges. And we came awful close to it, Jeannie. Awful close. Lucille told me, uh, I’m not going to give you a divorce under any circumstances. No woman’s gonna take you away from me and, uh, and that’s that. She says, not only that, if, if you, uh, start to make some trouble about this thing, she’s going to turn me, pictures and tapes, and so forth, over to an attorney, and let him proceed with whatever needs to be done. So, Jeannie, we’ve got our backs to the wall. We can’t beat this thing. Can’t beat it at all. You and I are gonna get caught one of these days, again. And I hold a very high position in my profession right now. Higher than, probably, I deserve. And I won’t give it up. And I wouldn’t want you to wait for me. Jeannie you just will take the chain off, darling. You just will. I can’t go through with it. I can’t. I just can’t go through with it. I just can’t..
T: Do send me, do send me tapes, and tell me how you feel. And don’t tell me your heart’s broken. I know it. I– I already know that. And, and I know you love me but I– I still like to hear you tell me it. And if some swell guy comes along that’s twice as good as I am, well, don’t hesitate. Do– do send me a tape, and let’s do be loving and cheerful to one another. People have been in our shoes in history thousands of– and they haven’t had this opportunity of– to–
* * *
J: Well, you look– you look awfully good, at least you did the last time I saw you.
T: You oughta see me now.
J: Oh, you look even better, huh?
J: No, really, you did. You looked like you– you know, did feel much better.
T: Would you like to go out some evening? Or some day, or some time?
J: Well, that’s a nice thought, but I still think it would get you into trouble eventually. With the family.
T: The family’s living their life, and I’m going to live mine. They know that.
J: I’m going to have to get off here pretty quick.
T: You wouldn’t even take time out to go out for dinner or anything?
J: Oh, if you’d leave it at that, but you probably wouldn’t.
T: Well, I wouldn’t have any choice with you, I don’t think.
J: Aw, [laughs] okay. I’ve grown to be pretty independent in the last 10 years. That’s the way I want it.
T: Well, that’s the way it should be if that’s the way you want it.